Full Transcript
Tracy: We're back. Yay. Let's see, Chris, how long has it been since we last podcasted?
Chris: It's been a long time but we have a lot of material. We're releasing a lot of back up recordings and we're really excited to get started here and feels like the world's ready. Results May Vary. Again, we've taken a little bit of a break since Tracy and I were both very busy but we are back and we have a big announcement today that we're really excited about.
Tracy: Yes, we are excited to announce that we have a new co-host, Katia Verresen.
Katia: Well, I'm excited to be here.
Tracy: We're so excited to have you. This is just great, I feel like the three of us coming together, it just adds another layer to what was already a really fun and exciting show for Chris and I to do. And then to introduce Katia, and to have you really talk about the work that you do out in the world. I was gonna say when we're allowed to be out in the world. Um, yeah, so why don't you introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit about what you do.
Katia: So I'm Katia Verresen. And I'm an Executive Coach, both in Silicon Valley and in New York City. And I work mostly with startup co-founders, senior executives, and investors. Tracy and I met several years ago and instantly became friends. And one of the things that we had in common was this passion for design and, and designing and life design and realizing that anything can be created, anything can be designed for. And that's a big part of what I do in my work. And so that's why I was excited to join the podcast with the two of you.
Tracy: Thank you so much for agreeing. Why don't you catch us up on your life, Chris?
Chris: Yeah, so I've been doing a lot in healthcare thinking a lot about whole-person care, and won't surprise this audience or the two of you that are looking at how beyond just the human body just beyond the parts and into the full emotional variables and scientific variables and practical factors that all need to converge to create successful health outcomes. And the way that the healthcare world's working now and thinking far more broadly is really holistically. So really looking at what are the ways that we can start from a place of health and make it even better, versus disease and progression of disease? So we're really excited.
Tracy: Awesome. Love it.
Katia: Yeah, um, one of the things that I love about life design and some of the ways we think together is reminding people that they always have a choice. And that's really the first step in designing anything in your life is whether someone so often, when I start working with clients, I'll do something called an energy audit. So I'll have them literally track from the moment they open their eyes. So the moment they close their eyes, literally everything that they're doing, and you know, getting ready breakfast with the kids commuting, going to work, I mean, just literally segment by segment, and then we start looking at what how much energy do they have? Is it low? Is it medium? Is it high? And the response I always get is you may have a choice. You mean it can be different than this? And so to me, the first step around designing is this idea of being very deliberate and understanding that you have a choice. It absolutely can be more the way you would like it to be. And you're just running experiments. And that's a very powerful tool in terms of each person, reconnecting to their sense of agency and a sense of sovereignty, how much vitality Do you feel that you have so you know, in terms of your body, a lifetime vitality, that some people got enjoyment buzz like they're feeling, you know, like an electrical current Yeah. Then there's emotional energy, which is are you feeling inspired? Or are you feeling drained? And then there's mental energy, which is, are you experiencing clarity and focus or confusion and this feeling of fog. And so they're about these three very simple buckets, and you can see where you're on each, and then start playing with lovers. So for mental energy and clarity, a lot of research shows that if we move, right, if we're working out or moving, we have more clarity and focus for up to two hours afterward. So if I have a client about to make a big decision, I am making sure that they've got some movement before that they've got that level of clarity they're looking for, there's a lot of research around self-compassion, being kind to yourself as a way to generate more emotional energy. Gratitude is another way to generate emotional energy. So there are very simple, very practical tools that don't take a whole lot of time that actually move those levers. And that's really love design.
Tracy: I love it. And I'm just thinking, Chris, you probably have experienced that as an as an active person.
Chris: Yeah, well, I also think it'll be really fun to unpack as we release new episodes is there is an organizational structure in a way to that so so when I think something as overarching as sleep, for example, is, we could deprive people of a ton of sleep, and they're going to feel the fog that Katia just described, they're going to feel a lack of energy that they just described, in fact, may most likely have a significant effect on their mental states, they're not gonna have the energy to move, the way that we know will create a positive response. And so, so having, helping our audience to understand if there was a step by step or some basics to cover before you get to different parts, that may be handy. And you might come at that in different ways, depending on who you are, and what your personalities like, I've not worked with culture as a client, but I know for certain that with one experiment, I'm the person that will go out and try to run like 50, concurrently, and then get totally overwhelmed that there are 50 experiments going on to do three, you know, and then I'm like, it doesn't work. And she's like, Well, I know, it's not working to do 50 experiments at the same time. So, so just kind of simplifying that I can relate to getting overwhelmed with that. And I see a lot of people get overwhelmed with that. So helping people it's like, Okay, are you doing basic, a and basic B and basic C. And then now let's run one experiment in the Z category,
Katia: You know, yeah, one small step at a time is really, a lot of people wanted and there are different temperaments. There are some people who are incremental, one small step at a time, and then there are some people who want to do all the changes. Now, there are different personality types that way. And, and knowing which one you are, is very helpful. But typically, it might be the French in me, I was actually born and raised in France. And, and there, there's a very cultural sense around things being one step at a time and being paced and giving time to time. And I find that that creates permanent change.
Tracy: So we should all become more French.
Katia: So something very practical from a life design perspective is, is, you know, throughout the day, having little breaks, little things that add enjoyment, that's a very French thing. There's an expression called “petits plaisirs quotidiens” which is like little pleasures that are daily.
Chris: We think life design is truly for everyone. We think this is not an act for a special group of people who are very privileged. What we want to do is unpack that again, with everyone. And again, not claim to be experts in all categories, but yet use this as a forum to learn together and to experiment together and cross-fertilize that learnings as a group.
Tracy: Design is democratic. And not only that, but humans are physiologically made to be creative. So you literally every one of us has that potential because we exist, it's universal. So can you could you tell us a little bit about how you design your own life? So what is your approach?
Katia: Yeah, I mean, I definitely do it. It's that's why when we met I was like, oh, there's a word for what I do. I'm definitely very deliberate. Um, so when I wake up, I mean,, I happen to be a morning person, so I do tend to wake up in a good mood. So whether I'm in a good mood when I went back or not, the first thing that I do is, is I do move first thing in the morning and so whether it's riding a bike or just putting on music and dancing, it's the first few moments of the morning, that's what I'm doing, I'm moving first. And then, I have designed my life in such a way that I get to walk to the ferry and take a boat to work every day. So I'm very intentional. And I also make sure to have breaks during the day, they don't have to be long. But what I do between clients, as a coach, it's all one on one, it's either over video or it's in person. But between the meetings, I will put on a song and dance or go around the block listening to music, music is fabulous because it will create dopamine as we in our brain as we look forward to our favorite moments in the song. And during the favorite moments of the song. So it's very generative for us emotionally. Now some of the life designs I have been doing since we are in a more constructive situation with working from home as an extrovert, and I get energy by being with people. The minute I realized we were working from home, I started having dinners at night over video with different friends. And so there's that connection, there's that intimacy. And from a life design perspective, I realized, wow, it's really easy to do that. Because no one has to drive and find parking, and no one has to cook for like 20 people, you're just Oh, just press join, and you're connected. And so it's playing. And that's something you've taught me, Tracy and Chris, you and I've spoken of this is just running different possibilities and different experiments to see what works. And I also do that with my clients. As they tell me during their day, oh, breakfast with the kids gives me energy. Well, we make sure that that is a special moment in their day. And they're going to focus on that no matter what other things are draining, and we'll start eliminating them. And, and that's also what I've done in my day, but part of the life design is playing around, noticing how you feel getting the feedback as the both of you say, and then trying something new or sticking to what's working Just like hot and cold. Like when we’re kids, it's like, if something is you know, you're playing the game, and people say it's cold, you move away from that spot, and you go towards the thing that is hot. And just thinking like, is this thing working for me? Is it hot or cold? How is it making me feel? Do I want to do more of it? Or do I want to move away from it? Absolutely. And the key is actually about noticing. And then there's another principle I pay a lot of attention to which is called momentum. So things go from either bad to worse, or you know, good to great. And it's pretty neutral. It's like a domino effect. And so that's why first thing in the morning when I get up, I will move. So I'm increasing the joy very, very deliberately, in order to get the momentum going in a certain direction. If I noticed that during the day, there's a little bit of a slump, I'll notice it and then make a different choice what's needed at this time. But the key in the design is really noticing, where am I at in this moment. Because if you don't, then the slump turns into sort of the boulder rolls down the hill. And at that point, it's much, much harder to get back up.
Tracy: Absolutely.
Katia: So that's one of the tools.
Chris: Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. And just having that sort of the scene set. If, for me, it's actually as extreme as like, if I don't kind of get the if I don't sort of win the morning, it's really hard to recover. And so I've recognized that momentum, that sort of momentum cycle that you've described. And then I've also noticed that the experiments, they tend to be better. If they're about chasing something positive and new versus trying to restrict, we like comfort, we're all pretty lazy at the end of the day, and that's perfectly okay. And that, but you get energy when you find energy. And so if you're trying to restrict things like don't do this, don't eat that don't say this, it can be really hard to focus your attention on the stopping versus adding new and then ultimately, some of the additives can crowd out the negatives. So yeah, and those experiments can be really small, you know, just like taking a stroll after dinner or during our restricted time here, we've been painting with my three-year-old daughter, and then you realize that you can send a postcard out of just about anything, as long as it's four and a half by six inches. More than a quarter four and a quarter sorry, post office. So if it's that size, you can just paint it, you know, write something on it and it feels productive. It feels like we're both doing something joyous as a three-year-old and dad and mom. But then it has this other purpose which is to connect with friends through the mail. So it says little things that like you said, I like that. It's more technical speak but sort of the combination of marginal gains.
Tracy: One of the things that I had noticed is when I called my aunt who's 90 and she lives in an assisted living center. It's a nice place, and she's independent enough and everything. And when we were talking, she said that, that they weren't allowed to leave their rooms anymore. And, and I really struck me just how many people probably are sitting at home or in, you know, places like this, where they don't have access, they're, they're not allowed to go outside unless it's an emergency. And so me and a couple of friends started a Facebook group, we just called it 8AM Call Your Elders Party thinking about all these people have moved online now doing dance parties and things with their friends. And that for older adults, they might not be, as you know, familiar with the technology, or have as easy of access to even do a zoom call or something. And so, you know, what is something that we can do for them and keep them connected. And then having this Facebook page is really for the people who are doing the calling, so that they can share their stories, and talk about, you know, what they learned, or their experiences are just the loved ones in their lives so that you have a reinforcement to keep doing this? And just to remind people, and think about who in your life could you reach out to right now, who could want to hear your voice and actually, you know, make that a priority before you start your day.
Katia: One of the things that both Tracy and Chris, you've taught me through all of your expertise on design thinking is looking at things differently and prototyping very easily. And that generates a feeling of power in the world. And that's truly a gift.
Tracy DeLuca: Yeah, prototype is one of my favorite words, because when you do get something, quote, unquote, wrong, like what, it was just a prototype, man, just trying it out no matter what it is big or small.
Chris: And the point is that it's either gonna work or it's not gonna work. But you want to keep pursuing it because creativity itself is what's giving you energy. So yeah, you keep in that loop. And then ultimately, I've kind of come to the conclusion that that's a perpetual life fuel source, that creativity is just, it doesn't matter if that's work, relationship, parenting, business creation. Travel, like how whatever you want to manifest it in. That is, to me what the key pillar of results may vary is this creativity as a fuel source, trying it out, not overthinking it, not under thinking, it's like just put it out there and give it a go. And then reserving the judgment against it. And I think this is where it gets really hard is to be that beginner just feels like as adults just feel so inappropriate for people to try something new in a category, they've never done anything in, or tried to do a career pivot in something that they feel like they weren't cut out to, or they didn't do 10 years of training for that, and therefore they could never do it. You notice people that are just really creative but don't they don't accompany that creativity with a ton of self-judgment, then you're a rocket and that momentum loop that you just described, it's almost unstoppable.
Katia: And that's a form of alignment from a coaching perspective, some of the things that you've said, are just gold, you know, the question of, you know, the coach, and he's like, yes, when you continue, and you keep moving, what that actually does is it gets you out of the fight-flight-freeze response. And I think as a society, we as people “get older”, whatever that means for people. And there's a psychological way of freezing, nature does not intend to that it's just societal programming. And so the ability of thinking of life as creative creativity, expressing asking these wonderful questions of, you know, there's got to be an easier way or sooner or later, I'll figure it out and keep moving forward, does put you in that place of alignment, and sooner or later you get there, or you get to something even better, right? Because when you're exploring that tends to be what happens. Yeah. As a coach, I'm always looking at mindsets, because they're literally everything. As designers, you're about action. I'm like mind and, and make it easy. Mindset is like glasses is the lens through which you see the world. And everything he talked about. Chris is just an optimum mindset for alignment, you know, for being in that flow state.
Chris: Yeah, taking us back one step. We talked, we're talking a lot about creativity. And I think one thing through prior episodes Tracy and I were unpacking is there's a big difference between the sort of creative thoughts and then creative actions but I think this move from creative thoughts to creative acts is a big part of Results May Vary, like helping people move to that next level, I'm sure a lot of people are gonna hear creative things on this show. And we'd love somehow to capture in our community that they're moving from thoughts to x, and then x going to the momentum builds that that catcher was describing earlier.
Tracy: Yeah. I'm always trying to work on how to better communicate the work that we do. And what is design? What do we mean by that? And I think right now, what I've been working with is just crystallizing it down to two things. It's empathy and its action. And you need both of those things in order to be doing design.
Katia: I also think that there's a superpower you both hold, or people who have your background holds that because you're swimming in the water, you might underestimate, but it's like a magical superpower, as far as I'm concerned, is or maybe you're putting it in the bucket of empathy, but this ability to have no judgment, which is often lacking in other disciplines. And so I think that's where the magic comes in, what you're doing is that it's 100% permission to try. I mean, what freezes a lot of people's fear of getting it wrong. Yeah, fear of being judged, the fear of being shunned, and none of that exist. And this design thinking work and philosophy that you described. And to me, that's phenomenal.
Tracy: Yeah, I was gonna say, when I was in college, I remember they were starting this whole initiative around critical thinking, right. And I think that we've been taught how to think critically about things, analyzing it, seeing if it's right or wrong. But critical thinking is powerful, but so is creative thinking. And you need both. And we also try to do both at the same time, which leads to the inability for the creative mind to think as generatively because we're trying to analyze it at the same time, we're trying to create it, but the new ideas need time and space in order to develop and to be explored. And then you put your critical lens on well, is this right for my life, Is this right? For my business, the work, whatever it is I'm trying to do, but giving each of them intentional, time in place to to be used?
Chris: Oh, I remember to an old project that Tracy is aware of and played some role in at IDEO was helping teach a bunch of people how to cook with a famous chef named Jamie Oliver. And in the beginning, we were just going out, we were just teaching people who had never cooked to make fifth chicken fajitas. And I too was not a cook. And so when we made chicken fajitas is like, well, that's not cooking. Really. I mean, that's, that's just like assembling some food together. And when you get over, you're like, yeah, okay, that's a meal. And I've made that meal, now I can make another meal, another meal. So you can see the trajectory between a very accomplished chef, and the very first chicken fajita they made.
Katia: But what you're illustrating, and you'd asked me a little bit earlier, Chris, in terms of, you know, defining creativity or explaining that one of them, again, because of when I do, what I often will tell people because we forget is, at this moment you're creating, and at this moment you're creating. And so when I think about coaching and life design, it's we are creating every single moment, and most people forget. So I really define it in a very general way. And it could be as what's the next pot you're choosing? What's the next breath you're taking? What are you going to choose to do in this next moment, and having the full agency of in each of these moments, you fundamentally are creating your ticket it really at that general level, but that level of agency for people?
Chris: Yeah, and knowing, you know, to watch extremes of this is to watch people that are so good at something. And they're rewarded for that, whether that's you're a singer or athlete or an entrepreneur, and then those folks who when that part of their life is over for whatever reason, really, really struggle. And just watching right now we've all lived through this global pandemic, or we're in the middle of it as we're recording this show, but we didn't want to make the show too much about that knowing that the environments changing really quickly. But you do see people coming out of this and those that appear to be coming out sort of advances are the ones that are up for learning. You know, trying this is a moment to try something else out. That's new, it's there. I don't I'm not making light of any hardships. I think people are going through a tremendous amount of pressure and stress and in some cases, death. Those that are looking at this as this is a learning opportunity. Because the world is going to be different. So let's learn what that new world will be and what things will come out. If you don't keep learning like it's game over. That's it. That's it. So I really like this philosophy in terms of the lifelong learning aspect. And it's actually a great time to be a generalist. And partly, it's a mindset shift. Certainly, networks and things of that nature are very helpful. But the mindset is imperative.
Katia: Well, you're really talking about Chris's, is the growth mindset, which is absolutely that. And something I often say and remind people is the most flexible element in a system has the most power. It's a really important principle to recall. And so it's number one, their constraints. And when we're being forced in a situation that we have that first freeze, But once we start to get used to the new setup, and start to breathe, and get back to normal and go, Okay, so what can I learn? What might be my favorite this moment? What's one small thing I can do? In my willingness to let go, who I thought I was, and start to explore. I mean, at this time, I have so many people saying, ha, this work from home thing that's really working out for me, I never thought it wouldn't have I might be able to live anywhere and still do work. And, and so, or Hi, I've always wanted to write this book I've always wanted to so I'm getting a lot of like I've always wanted, and people thinking less linearly as they can only do one thing, but more of a mosaic. I think as humans we are most we are more than one thing. And so it's fascinating to me at this time to notice that as we're being sort of stripped away from our unconscious habits, that these other little dreams are bubbling up like I've never seen before.
Tracy: Yeah, it's interesting to me, because I feel like you know, change happens so slowly. And then it doesn't. Right. I feel like we'll have taken a 10-year leap forward. Where that few months ago, yeah, we would, we would be nowhere near these mentality organizations deciding that it's okay for their employees, those who can to be able to work from home, or just to do things differently. So it's exciting, Chris, you're saying, you know, learning, always learning and thinking about, you know, what is this new world going to be? And realizing that we have an active role in creating this new world is going absolutely,
Chris: Guys, thanks.
That's a wrap. One more, we'd love to have you participate in the conversation we're having about life design. By joining our Results May Vary facebook group, that's where we'll share more tips, tricks and inspiration and where you can share your own experiments with fellow community members who also know and believe that we're all born creators, and every day is a whole new chance to create. Thanks so much for listening to Results May Vary.